I am the lyingest liar of Liartown....

So yeah....I made a statement yesterday,"Okay this should be my last torture related post for a bit...". Which it would seem was a complete and utter lie.

I just can not seem to quit it. Maybe it is the news that is trickling out? Maybe it is just my own myopic obsession with the subject, or maybe it is the sheer enormity of the topic.

As I said yesterday Gallup released their poll on torture. It has some interesting data points in it.

I had written a pretty comprehensive screed on the subject, but instead I thought I would go another route.

Here are various stories about how the "debate" has been covered.

• NYTimes: How ABC Tilted the Torture Debate
• The Plume Line: Huge Majorities of Americans say it is Torture
• Glenn Greenwald's Taxonomy of media subterfuge on during the torture debate
• Joe Scarborough is a douche

And instead of just commenting on those, I thought I would dig up a video and let you decide for yourself. I have talked about how we prosecuted individuals for this act during WWII, and even how during the Reagan Administration Texas law enforcement officials were prosecuted for the act. (It is disturbing, but this is what torture looks like, even though the situation is radically different this individual signed on for this, knew what would happen, and still you see the results. Pay attention to the directions the interrogator gives. And take note of how long it all lasts.)



A growing problem I am having with this debate is there is a certain conceit out there. That conceit is this; most lay people believe you can resist torture. The truth is you can not. Torture is done to you. Against your will. You will break. It is only a matter of time.

Now you can be trained to give false information but make no mistake, if you are in the hands of someone who is willing to torture, you have no recourse. That is what makes torture so vile and repulsive it absolutely removes any autonomy from the individual. Nothing stops the torture, not your pleas for mercy, not the rending of your mind or your flesh. Just the will of the torturer.

In our popular culture we like to believe that it is heroic to persevere and the strong willed individual can hold out indefinitely versus these tactics. That it is merely an act of will to resist. No, everyone and every body has its limits. And once those limits are breached, the information that flows has little to do with veracity and much to do with ending the pain. You can be trained, to give false information. You can be trained to be more resistant to pain, but eventually through the combination of tactics listed in those memos, you will be broken.

That is why, in my estimation, the onus for proof of efficacy lay fully with those who endorse these techniques. I have the weight of legal precedent, history and psychology on my side.

The opposition? Action movies, their own sadistic urges and a few episodes of '24'.

And if you think that is the sound of me becoming more strident in my views...then yes...you would be correct.

-Cheers